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Dan Asks:
“I’ve noticed that playing an open A chord on some guitars sounds right, while on others it sounds slightly out of tune. I have a lot of guitars and actually play them all, and use a Peterson HD strobe tuner for tuning and setting intonation. Also, it’s not as I would expect: the more expensive ones sounding great and the cheaper ones with poor sounding A chord. I do keep the action low and strings fairly new.”
Hi Dan!
Whenever you’ve got intonation set properly but one or two lower-position guitar chords sound out-of-tune, it’s almost always a nut issue:
- The nut may be too high, which makes the action higher than it should be at the nut. So, when you press the strings down the notes are literally pulled sharp due to the extra distance the string has to stretch (much like bending a note)
- The overall nut height is fine, but the string slots themselves aren’t deep enough, which can cause the same effect as #1
- The string slots are shaped improperly–where the breakpoint of the string over the nut is too far forward or backward. This creates a problem similar to when your bridge saddles are too far forward or backward.
Sometimes, it’s a combination of those factors. Sometimes, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with your guitar, but I’ll talk more about that at the end of this article.
Usually, this is more noticeable with certain chords. Open D and A chords are the usual suspects, but other chords can stick out as well, depending on the guitar and how bad the nut is.
These issues can be fixed by deepening and/or reshaping the individual string slots a bit. However, simply filing them deeper isn’t enough–there’s some skill involved in doing it right so that strings don’t buzz or bind in the slots. So, it’s best left to a pro unless you’re willing to learn the technique so you can (properly) do it yourself. It IS a necessary skill if you want to do your own guitar setups. However, don’t do your very first nut job on an expensive guitar. Always practice on a cheap guitar or junk neck (which you can find all over ebay) first.
Nut-height is almost always a problem with cheap guitars. The nut is the #1 thing that gets glossed over or rushed during final QA at the factory because it requires a bit of time and finesse to get just right. So, factories usually err on the side of leaving the nut too high, which avoids fret buzz but can cause high action and poor intonation (though not always). They assume the future owner will have the guitar set up, and lower the nut action to their liking. A high nut leaves the future owner plenty of “meat” to remove, as necessary.
On the other hand, the nuts on very expensive and high-end guitars usually get a lot more attention before they leave the factory. That’s why nut issues tend to be rarer on high-end guitars.
However, even after you’ve got the action at the nut properly dialed-in, the fact is that guitars are imperfect instruments due to their fixed frets. You’ll never have perfect intonation over the entire fretboard. Compensated nuts can help, but the only way to get nearly perfect intonation everywhere is with something like the psychedelic looking (and pricey) True Temperament fretting system.
Or, It Might Just be Your Ears
Even after you’ve got the action at the nut properly dialed-in, the fact is that guitars are imperfect instruments due to their fixed frets. You’ll never have perfect intonation over the entire fretboard. Compensated nuts can help, but the only way to get nearly perfect intonation everywhere is with something like the psychedelic looking (and pricey) True Temperament fretting system.
No, you’re not hallucinating. These are True Temperament frets–the only way to get near-perfect intonation across the entire fretboard. Image courtesy truetemperament.com
Don’t Believe Me? Watch This Video
So, I’m actually incapable of explaining… scientifically… what’s going on when your in-tune guitar sounds out-of-tune while you’re playing. However, I happened across a video that does explain things. Warning: it’s a tad difficult to watch, but if you’re patient, it’ll help set your mind at ease and perhaps help you accept that there may not actually be anything wrong with your guitar, nor you, for that matter:
Lastly Dan, kudos for using the Peterson HD Strobe Tuner. For the money, it’s an amazing little strobe tuner–the same one I use. Have you experimented with their sweetened tunings at all? They’re supposed to help remedy these types of intonation issues (assuming action is set properly at the nut and bridge). Don’t set your intonation while in a sweetened tuning mode though. Dial-in your intonation in normal mode first, then use a sweetener for normal tuning after that.
Hope that helps!
I am having trouble with how my D chord is sounding. I am unsure why. My strings are all tuned perfectly (well, as much as one can) and I am doing the right things, but it still sounds off. Any advice?
Thanks for the advice! Lower the nut and now the guitar is chording nicely
A nice sound to me is a minor run over major sounding chords.
I’ve always wanted to get it in my playing.
I’m close.
Do you have any tips?
Thxs Answer Guy.
Hi Dan. Unfortunately, I’m not a guitar teacher. I teach guitar care, maintenance, and general DIY. As far as my playing skill, I’m pretty okay, but nowhere near being qualified to give anyone advice on how to play. However, I get this type of question a lot, so I’ve picked out a few good books and courses here: Recommended Guitar Lesson Resources.
Thanks for this post on how to learn guitar. I learned some new things from it. Please keep posting & let me know for the upcoming posts.
Hi Sam. The best way to know when I make new posts is to join my email list. Among other benefits, I let those on my list know whenever I publish a new blog post.
Go to my Start Here page, and you’ll see a couple signup boxes–one at the top, and another about halfway down the page–labelled “Get the Inside Scoop.” Enter you email address and click the “Subscribe Now” button, and you’ll get a confirmation email.
After you confirm, you’ll be all set!
Great in-depth answer. Ended up here right after an open D chord made me wince. I recently learned how to level, crown and polish my frets and want to learn more of the set-up process. Looks like learning how to address the nut is next. Getting some junk necks is a great idea. Thanks!
Hi Rob. Glad to hear you’re actually learning some useful stuff from my little website. It’s why I do this sort of thing.
Congrats on doing your first fret job. I definitely recommend practicing on junk necks first. The downside is that you can’t take junk necks through the whole setup process to see how you ultimately did, but they at least give you a feel for how the leveling tools and files cut. Junk necks are especially good for learning how to crown properly, which is easy to mess up.
Brilliant. I’m terrible at math unless the numbers have dollar signs or relate to music. I have a strat that the open C chord always sounds out of tune. My tele and Gretsch sound fine. Thank you for telling me I’m not hallucinating or going insane.
Hi Callagh. You’re definitely not going insane! Your ear is good enough that you can hear the slight out-of-tuneness.
I have to agree, the StewMac and Ernie Ball tool kits are quite decent and affordable, to keep your guitar in decent shape it’s important to do the research and have a good idea of what you’re trying to accomplish without hurting your action or performance of your instrument , good advice. I enjoy your blog and will follow, thank you.
I just read your comments answering why my guitar sounds out of tune even though the strings are all in tune. Now my question is – Why did this suddenly happen? (I didn’t have this problem, then suddenly I did.) The only things I can think of are: I inadvertently stored my guitar in a room that got pretty cold for several days; OR, I replaced a broken string, rather than the entire set. Any thoughts?
I believe it come from an advanced ear. All guitars sound slightly out of tune to me now, But I could be wrong
This is a great detailed answer. I definitely know what you mean about not trying to work on the nut without having some skill first. I wish I could do my own setups/adjustments but find the precision involved beyond me. Think I’ll stick to playing.
Thanks Bobby, Good Info…
Can you recommend a good budget minded nut file set?
Hi Dan! As much as I’d love to save you some dough, I can only recommend files that I’ve actually used (even though there are some real el-cheapos on Amazon). I’ve been happy with nut files by StewMac and Grizzly. Those are two direct Amazon links, but read carefully and be sure you buy the right set for the gauge of strings your guitar uses. Each of those manufacturers makes different file gauges.
Again, if you search Amazon for “guitar nut files” you’ll find some really REALLY cheap nut files sets that come on a keyring looking thing. Some even will include bone nut blanks and sandpaper. I’ve never tried those, so I can’t vouch for them. Just do your homework and read lots of reviews if you decide to go with one of those really cheap file sets.